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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Apr 12, 2011 10:47am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: furthur vs. the dead

pros and cons for each i s'pose....but there something about the copy cat guitarist that isn't quite right ... i mean Jerry never tried to sound like bob dylan or john lennon or keith richards or.....i think the music was more genuine with warren and larry or scofield or even jimmy herring was there ....what do you think????

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:01pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Furthur, the dead, other ones, whatever

To my ears, Further is a little more enjoyable for a casual listen, but quite honestly I'm not much into any aspect of the post-Jerry Dead scene or the projects of the former members. I've always felt that while Garcia was not the GD by himself, there's no GD without Jerry, and anything else is just a knockoff. Other Ones, The Dead, Further...we're not exactly talking apples and oranges here.

My general impression of these various incarnations is that fans get more excited by the IDEA of their music than by the music itself. I don't think it really matters whether the guitarist is some Jerry fanboy or someone totally original. This is all about trading on mythology. I'm not saying Phil and Bobby don't have the right to do that, because God knows they've given me lots of good times, but that's how I see it.

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Poster: jds121291 Date: Apr 12, 2011 8:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur, the dead, other ones, whatever

i'd say thats a pretty offbase impression. why would fans be shelling out the cash for the shows if they didnt think the music was enjoyable? i know all the furthur shows ive attended, the people around me and the people i talked to during set breaks truly enjoyed what they heard, not just the idea that they were playing.

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Poster: skuzzlebutt Date: Apr 13, 2011 10:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Furthur, the dead, other ones, whatever

My impression is based on the fact that the people I know who have attended these shows do not seem to revisit the music with an overwhelming passion after the fact. They may pull out a random show and listen to it, but I do not hear them referencing specific dates or critiquing the performances with the same level of interest in details that they did back when the GD was a touring band. Typically, they have downloads of the shows they have seen, and that's it. I just don't sense the same passion, and listening to the music I can understand why. It's not bad- indeed, much of it is quite good - but nothing remarkable. I'm not attacking it; I've just never seen the point of Jerry-less Dead.

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Poster: adedhed68 Date: Apr 12, 2011 11:00am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Bottom line: I think Furthur is by far the best incarnation of the post Grateful Dead era by a wide margin. As far as the copycat guitar goes, I generally agree that it isn't quite right, and in addition, I do not particularly like it when people say that JK is better than Jerry. HOWEVER, Furthur is exciting because it is happening NOW and I really feel as if this band has managed to carve out their own niche.

Nobody could ever do what Jerry did, and I think JK knows and respects that. If we accept Furthur for what they are, then we are lucky "heads". Phil really is a Phreak!!! The man is playing bass better than ever. Just sick !!!! Bobby is Bobby but his voice is pretty shot. Once in a while, the old Bobby voice comes back.

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Poster: cb18201 Date: Apr 13, 2011 11:13am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

the fact that anyone could even try to compare jerry and john Kadlecik is a joke in itself. and im sure john would probably say the same. i love seeing dark star live but i wouldnt ever waste my time listening to a cd of their shows when i could just listen to the real thing. there a LIVE band, thats what their meant for. for the people who still wanna hear this music played live. but i honestly think dark star sounds way better with jeff mattson anyway. after seeing their new years show last year it kinda blew me away how good they sounded but i dont think ide ever go pop it in my cd player. maybe 20 years from now just to remember the experience but thats probably it.


as for the dead Vs. furthur. I like the dead better. mostly because its 4 original members all playin together. i like furthur too and wouldnt miss a local show but ide rather see warren playing with the dead instead of someone trying to sing like jerry and play almost every note like jerry where warren adds his own style but you can hear the jerry influences. the 09 tour was filled with alot of great shows. the best one of the tour in my opinion was 4/29/09 at the meadowlands arena (iZod Center) when branford came out an played with them. the energy was incredible. just go listen to crazy fingers from that show. rediculous. i think the 2004 tour line up was pretty dam good. the band sounded fuller with jimmy herring, warren and the two keyboardists (baracco & chimenti) for example, theres a version of lazy river road from 6/23/04 at the coors amphitheatre in san diego that sounds really tight. they should bring back herring & warren for the next tour.

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Poster: wrwiii Date: Apr 13, 2011 1:30pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

not a reply to the furthur vs the dead debate (although I'm lovin these furthur shows I for one love JK and his Jerry-like sounds).
First time to post here and not sure how to post a new question. Anyone know where I can get a soundboard quality download of the Furthur show at fox theatre in atlanta 4/3/11? Can't purchase the download on furthur's site. Was on 2nd row of the pit for that show and really want to get a copy of it. thx!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

> I do not particularly like it when people say that JK is better than Jerry

Are we talking about non-brain damaged people? Jerry Garcia was a transformational artist whose legacy continues to grow.
The other gentleman is going to be able to buy a nice house and have some more freedom as an artist (at his level) to do the projects that interest him.

Unless he's blowing all his ducats.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:57pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

or blowing Ducats.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:03pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I had my money on you. You are chalk baby.

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I think that may have been the best set-up i've ever seen. You keep setting 'em up, I'll keep knocking 'em out.


And yes, Splue, I'm guessing this falls under your "dumb homoerotic puns" that so trouble you.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:26pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

The powers that be gave me a moment of inspiration at the end of my post, and yes indeedy I was thinking of you SDH. Ribbons and bows w/ kisses.

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Poster: splue Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:20pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur likes it big

i meant homophobic but i got turned on when i was typing ;)

tell micah i still think he's hot tho, i just dont play for that team

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Poster: splue Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Please remememmember that this is a forum primarily about the Gratefully Dead.

Not about blowing Ducats.

Although that would be great for Comminity Veedio.

I can reveal myself to be a beeg fan. I am many people.
I am the Coca Cola Nation. I would like to teach the world to sing. I used to be in a band of Indians, but now I
fight the sexy jihad! U may be feeling punked. U may feel
many sensations. Please relax.



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Poster: splue Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. lgbt

http://chalkmessages.org/

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Poster: deadhead53 Date: Apr 12, 2011 11:33am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I like both but if I had to go for one, I would go with Furthur. The reason being is that I thought the 09 Dead tour with Warren was a little slow and I wished that they had let Warren sing more of Jerry's tunes. The thing I like about Furthur is that John is (to me) not being Jerry but putting his own mix on the song through his guitar work. If the Dead tour of 09 funked it up a little more and picked the pace up (maybe it was me but the shows did seem slow) and allowed warren a liitle more room on Jerry tunes, I would probably be saying The Dead. How can you go wrong with alll of them plus Warren under the conditions I put out. I saw Furthur in Boston last month and thought the show was great. Great energy and playing Russon and Chimenti were phenom. I agree that Phil is playing his face off. I guess Furthur by a small margin!

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Poster: splue Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:02pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

i am starting 2 like further twice as much as the dead---they play with real balls

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Poster: user unknown Date: Apr 13, 2011 3:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I noticed you left out The Other Ones. I assume that is because Furthur and The Dead are not in the same league as the 2002 TOO.

here can be no comparison of any of the "survivor" bands to the "Band Beyond Description".

"survivor" bands(best to worst IMHO)

The Other Ones>Furthur>The Dead

This post was modified by user unknown on 2011-04-13 22:06:51

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Poster: turnphilup Date: Apr 12, 2011 11:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Before going to see them, I took someone's advice here and just went in with a open mind and the intent on just having some fun. I had to remind my very judgmental ear to just freaking relax. Then John came in sort of low and off beat on Cold Rain and Snow and I thought, what the heck? After another song or two, I finally just let go, and decided to just get caught up in the music and accept it and the band for what it was. This was music that I had loved and embraced for so long now, and I was not going to give up on it so easily. I am a cancer survivor, and here I was in Phil and Bob's presence, and I was making all of these unrealistic judgments and misconceptions about them and what they were trying to do? I mean, here were two of the original five, that had played in the best f#@$ing rock n roll band in history, right here and now and I am judging them! They had smiles on their faces and were having a blast. Just loving life and playing like the were hanging out at Magoo's. From then on, I just listened, then I danced, and then I contemplated just how lucky I was to be able to witness something like this just one more time. To have my soul rocked just one more sweet time. How lucky I felt after that? It was the best show experience I had since the real deal. So, that's my two cent. Now, just go, listen and love it for what it is. Music that make life worth living. It really could be the last time. Peace.

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Poster: Jack o' Roses Date: Apr 12, 2011 5:39pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Phil, Bob, Sunshine & the four Js vs. the dead

that's pretty much the way that I felt, maybe more strongly so. This is now & "This is the season of, What now?"

Plus Furthur is just getting better & better!

Sunshine & the four Js: The singers help, and Russo is a Monster. The song selection is pretty much like a dream come true. Phil is better than ever! Bob plays the new stuff like a virtuoso!

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Apr 12, 2011 11:59am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

well said!

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Thanks for your post. We can often be a cranky lot, looking for the perfect moment (a la Spaulding Grey. )I'll make that 4 very well saids.

I hope you have made it five years and if you haven't, every day is one more day away from being sick. Good luck and best.

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Poster: ringolevio Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:17pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Yes, very well said!!

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Post of the day.

Very well said. Don't think anyone here can argue with that sentiment.

OK, there may be one or two who will lash out because it is obvious that honesty, perception and clarity scare the hell out of them. Keep up the fight.

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Poster: adks12020 Date: Apr 12, 2011 11:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

wait a second....there are people that say JK is better than Jerry? Really? I like them both but I think that is quite a stretch.

Also, why would Jerry want to play like Keith Richards or Bob Dylan when he could blow either one of them away in just about any style of guitar playing.

Ok, all that said. I think what people need to remember is ALL musicians base their playing on the syles of others. The difference with the amazing players (Jerry included) is that they are more adept at developing their own signature sound based on their influences. I mean think about it, how many blues guitar players play Albert King, BB King, Robert Johnson, etc. licks constantly? Pretty much all of them. That doesn't mean they aren't any good. It means they know what they like and what kind of sound they hope to get...and some it has been done before.

I feel like that is the way JK is. I don't, by any stretch, think he is exactly copying Jerry. I've said it before on these boards. Listen to his playing. It is in Jerry's style but there are some notable differences. Jerry was much more out front. His playing had a lot more virtuosity to it. It could go anywhere at any time. JK is a little more predictable. He stays within the structure of the song a lot more as opposed to really taking things out there and daring the other band members to follow like Jerry would.

Ok, now I'm rambling but suffice it to say there is no point in comparing Furthur and The Grateful Dead. There are only 3 similarities: Bobby, Phil and the songs. Beyond that it's a different band. They play the songs differently, in different orders, and the jams are structured totally differently than the Dead would have done it. It's my understanding that Phil and Bobby wanted it that way.

Furthur is a really fun live show. Go check them out....just don't expect the Grateful Dead because they are not the Grateful Dead.

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 12, 2011 11:46am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arcade Fire v Bright Eyes

Oh sorry - I got stuck in the present. Nevermind....

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arcade Fire v Bright Eyes

Arcade Fire in a landslide

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Arcade Fire v Bright Eyes

I agree - saw them last year at Henry Miller Library in Big Sur and one of the most infectious, high energy shows I've ever been to.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I think that they're comparing Furthur with The Dead -- not The Grateful Dead. At least that's what I'm assuming. So basically it's JK vs. Warren Haynes.

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Poster: adks12020 Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

hahah.. you are totally right...I guess working and trying to respond to these at the same time is a bad idea..anyway, in response to the actual question (haha)...Furthur 100%. I have nothing against Warren Haynes but he just doesn't fit. I saw a couple of shows on the last tour they did and the band was totally flat. It almost seemed lazy. I was so bored during the second set of the show in Albany, NY that I ended up leaving before the encore....and that was after sitting down for the entire set becuase there was absolutely no energy in the building...from the band or the crowd.

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Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Fully agree. I was pretty bored when I saw The Dead in DC. A couple of nice numbers, but mostly pretty boring.

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Poster: adedhed68 Date: Apr 12, 2011 1:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I kid you not. I have heard a few, not many, but a few people say that they like JK better than Jerry.

On to Chimenti, this guy is sensational......reminds me alot of Brent

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 12, 2011 3:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I was on a road trip with a couple lady friends of mine and we were looking through CDs to see what was next. One of them sees a bootleg I made with Dark Star on it and she's like oh is this Dark Star? I'm like, "yeah it's a good version" and she says, "oh nevermind, if it was DSO I would have put it in but I don't want to listen to the Grateful Dead"

My mind was completely blown. This person would rather listen to a GD cover band... Her reasons were that the GD weren't weird enough and also that she had seen DSO live so she could jive with the way the players interact... uhh I dunno but I think it's the vocals, which a lot of people are turned off by. Are they that bad?

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Poster: bluedevil Date: Apr 12, 2011 3:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

My reaction to your story:

http://www.gifbin.com/982670

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Poster: deadpolitics Date: Apr 13, 2011 1:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

That was my reaction too. It was pretty gory as I was actually driving when this occurred.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Apr 12, 2011 5:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

this is mindboggling to me too, dp. i love seeing DSO but when it come to listening i have not once reached for any of their shows (i don't even think i have any actually) over a real GD performance. i mean i realize its subjective, but why would you want some watered down listening experience when you can have the real deal? like picking Skoal when you can have Grey Goose for the same price.

the vocals? i think we can all agree this is not the GD's strong suit, but c'mon, their totally listenable most of the time. pretty suspect reason to pick DSO...sounds to me like she just isn't hearing what we are ;)

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Poster: adedhed68 Date: Apr 12, 2011 10:31pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Man, she just doesn't "get IT". I've had great times seeing Crazy Fingers in Florida and Cubensis in LA...never saw DSO....but a cover band is a cover band is a cover band.

The last time I heard someone say they liked JK better than Jerry, my reply was "let's just not go there please". That was me being very nice.

Heck, the GD were a cover band to a large degree, but they reinvented alot of tunes and actually made alot of them sound better.

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Poster: high flow Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

Having witnessed DSO play 5/11/72 over the weekend, I've been contemplating the following question.

Did DSO just play the best GD show I've ever seen?

Scary thought, I know.

I attended most of the Bay Area shows from 1989-1993. 10/31/1991, 12/27/90, 12/6/89 stand out as some of the better performances. I also saw the band at Cal Expo, Autzen Stadium and down in AZ.

I'm not sure any of those shows stands up to DSO's performance last Saturday. There is something to be said for NOW. I'm sure I've forgotten how much fun I had at all those GD shows.

In any case, based on my 2 DSO experiences, I'd take DSO over any of the current/former post-GRATEFUL Dead line-ups.

BTW, the new fake Jerry plays circles around the old fake Jerry. I think Further chose the wrong guy.

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Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

hf, I am kind of blown away by 10-31-91 rating below a ... DSO show? Wow. I hope D. doesn't see this or I'll be cajoled into going to one. But,

>Did DSO just play the best GD show I've ever seen?

Is something to think about.

Memories
http://www.archive.org/details/gd1991-10-31.sbd.hinko.32241.sbeok.flac16

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Apr 13, 2011 7:52am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

BTW, the new fake Jerry plays circles around the old fake Jerry. I think Further chose the wrong guy. now that is a scary thought!!!!

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Poster: SomeDarkHollow Date: Apr 12, 2011 12:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: The New Adventures of Old Fake Jerry

Now THAT would make for great television.

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Poster: Crazy Otto Date: Apr 12, 2011 4:59pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

I think Warren in particular is an outstanding interpreter of Jerry's music. He gets it and really pays his respects when he plays it, but never tries to copy Jerry's style.

On the flip side I think Kadlecik is a complete joke. Little side story:

I have never been a fan of cover/tribute bands and always thought the whole idea behind them was kind of silly. But I had heard good things about DSO so when I won tickets to see them I didn't hesitate to go. Went in with an open mind and everything. I was blown away by how bad they were. I left before the first set was even over. To this day still do not know what people see in them.

Cut to a little bit later I hear Phil & Bob have a new project, so without even knowing the line-up I give them a shot. Again I am blown away but not in a good way. What is this lifeless interpretation of Dead music I am suffering through? And who is this awful guitar player trying to copy Jerry but failing miserably? You can imagine my lack of shock to discover it's the guy from DSO.

I said it before and I will be REALLY happy if and when Furthur ends and we can go back to some quality and high energy Phil & Friends shows with interesting line-ups. But I'm not holding my breath.

I was at a party recently and when the topic of Furthur came up, one girl describe it as "geriatric Dead." Pretty accurate. I know Phil & Bob are up there in years, but they are really letting it be known through Furthur.

Just my opinion though.

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Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Apr 13, 2011 7:54am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: furthur vs. the dead

in a nutshell>>>>>I think Warren in particular is an outstanding interpreter of Jerry's music. He gets it and really pays his respects when he plays it, but never tries to copy Jerry's style.